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A Brief History of Early Days in North Texas and the Indian Territory
As Told By: Joe T. Roff

{This has also been published in some sources with an erroneous author as "Second Interview with John. T. Barr* of Stecker in 1938."}

I moved to the Chickasaw Nation, Indian Territory, in 1871, fifty-five years ago [ should be 1883?]. When I came to the Territory there were but few white settlers here. The land embraced in what were called the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations by treaty with the Indians had been ceded to them in consideration of the relinquishment of lands in Mississippi, Alabama, and Tennessee.

At the time of the removal of the tribes known as the Five Civilized Tribes to the Indian Territory, the country was intended as a permanent abiding place of such tribes, where, as self governing communities, the Five Civilized Tribes should be free from any interference or encroachment of the whites, but as the years passed and the population of the states contiguous to the Indian Territories increased, the whites overflowed into the Territory where they improved and cultivated the land as tenants of the Indians.

Thus, finally, partly as a result of the short-sightedness of the Indians in admitting the whites into the country and partly as a result of the pressure of the dominant race, which had over-ridden them in their homes east of the Mississippi and whom they were again powerless to resist, this seclusion and isolation which the Indians sought by immigration was lost.

It is a matter of history now that their tribal laws and courts were finally abolished, the land once held by them in common was allotted to them in severalty, and the old Indian Territory and Oklahoma came into the Union as a state.

I only refer to these matters as a background for my description of life in the old Chickasaw Nation and the incidents I am about to describe, for those conditions grew out of the changes that time has wrought during the last fifty years.

At the time I came to the Chickasaw Nation, the country was only thinly settled and as I have already stated there were only a few white settlers here, many of them inter-married white men who had contracted marriages with women of Indian blood. The Indians, as a general thing, lived in small settlements but the few white settlers who were scattered here and there over the country seldom located in the Indian's settlements.

Most of the Indians were averse to manual labor and as game was plentiful they managed to get along very well with their stock and small garden patches. A few of the mixed bloods were more enterprising and had farms but generally speaking there was little effort on the part of the Indians to put the land into cultivation. Originally no white people had any right to live in the Indian country and those who came in were really here on sufferance or by permission of the Indian authorities. A permit law was enacted under the provisions of which white men were permitted to live in the Territory. The first permit law enacted provided that whites might live here by paying an annual permit fee or tax of 25 cents. This charge was later increased by the Indian Legislature, first to $1.00 per year and later to $5.00. There was very little objection to the first raise but when the annual permit was boosted to $5.00 per head, there was some dissatisfaction among the whites. Some few of them moved out of Indian Territory but most of them paid the tax without question.

As the land was held in common, no one could acquire title to any particular tract of land. Right of possession depended on occupancy and improvements made upon the land. There was no law regarding land lines other than a trespass law making it unlawful for anyone to locate or reside nearer that one-fourth mile from the holdings and improvements of another.

As the white people continued to drift into the country, some of the more enterprising Indians conceived the idea of making long-term leases on their holdings of from five to ten years, depending on the amount of land put into cultivation and the kind of buildings erected. Under this lease system the country began to settle up very rapidly. The open range and plenty of grass and water began to attract cow-men and quite a number of stock ranches were established in the Indian Territory at an early date.

The full blooded Indians did not take kindly to the encroachments of the whites and would have been better satisfied without their presence in the country. I remember well a conversation at the Brier Creek Court House on one occasion between Dr. Worhtington, an inter-married citizen who was County Clerk of Pickens County, and a bunch of full bloods over the lease question. Dr. Worthington was urging the full bloods to lease out their land, telling them that the game would soon be gone and that they would have to change their customs; but that if they would rent out their land, the rent would make them a living. The Indians listened attentively to his argument but rather scoffed at the idea, saying "Tom Fuller mighty good, Doc; Tom Fuller mighty good."

As time went along, the lease system was greatly extended. Cowmen were stocking the range with cattle, some of the pastures being fenced. Under the Indian rule it was unlawful for a white man to hold cattle in Indian Territory but this law was easily evaded by an arrangement with some Indian under which the pasture and cattle were held in the Indian's name.

Owners of herds of cattle, on their way to the northern markets through the Chickasaw Nation from Texas, were compelled to pay a tax of 25 cents per head on the cattle driven through the Indian domain. This law was also evaded by resourceful cowmen and Indians in many instances by giving a bogus bill of sale to some Indian who would meet them at Red River; the Indian for an agreed sum would accompany the cattle, and claim them as his own until they passed the Chickasaw border on the north.

During Governor Overton's administration in 1876 or 1877, the Indian Legislature again amended the permit law by raising the tax on each citizen from $5.00 to $25.00. The had been some dissatisfaction some years before when the tax had been raised from $1.00 to $5.00 but nothing to compare with the tempest raised by this last increase.

Many of the lessees and renters openly refused to pay and Governor Overton call out the Militia and also asked for the assistance of a squad of United States Soldiers to collect the permit tax and remove those who refused to pay it. These strong measures were effective and most of the white men paid off, their Indian landlords assisting them in many instances and those who persisted in their refusal were removed from the limits of the Chickasaw nation.

Meanwhile the tide of white immigration to Indian Territory continued. A good many cowmen came in from Texas seeking new range for their cattle and all this tended to advertise the country. Many of the cowmen ran wire fences around their ranges, putting in large pastures to save expense and to keep cattle belonging to others off their range. In this way, quite a number of large pastures in the western part of the Chickasaw Nation were enclosed. Some of these pastures covered thousands of acres. As no white man could lawfully hold cattle in Indian country, the pastures by secret arrangements were all claimed by Indian citizens, but were financed by non-citizens who were the real owners of the stock. This was done to evade the law.

This illegal practice became so prevalent as to finally attract the attention of the Indian Government and a law was passed prohibiting Indian citizens from fencing more than one square mile or six hundred and forty acres of land and orders were issued for removal of all fences enclosing holdings in excess of that provided by law. The owners refused to take down their fences and the Militia was again called out to cut down the large pastures and put out permit evaders, and the Indian Militia in obedience to these orders proceeded to cut the wire around the pasture illegally fenced and considerable excitement followed.

W. E. Washington, an inter-married citizen, was the owner of one of these large pastures. A detachment of Militia camped near his ranch with a view of cutting his fences the following day. During the night their horses were all stolen or run off and some twenty head were killed and the balance scattered over the country which was rough and broken. It was generally believed that Washington's cowboys had run the Indian's horses off and Mr. Washington and some of his cowhands were arrested but the matter was finally adjusted in some way and Mr. Washington paid for the horses.

The early history of the Chickasaw Nation and so far as that is concerned of the whole Indian Territory is crimsoned with blood. Many white men in the Chickasaw Nation could hardly be classes as good citizens. The unsettled condition of the country and the difficulty of bringing criminals to justice made the Chickasaw Nation an ideal stomping ground for renegades and outlaws from other states.

The United States Criminal Court, with headquarters at Ft. Smith, Arkansas, was the only court having jurisdiction in the Indian Territory. It is true that there were Indian courts but they had jurisdiction only in cases involving Indian citizens. A few deputy United States marshals scattered over this vast territory constituted the only police force, and energetic and efficient though they might have been, they were too few in number to apprehend many of the law violators and all-around bad men of that day.

It was a violation of the United States law to introduce intoxicating liquor into the Indian country, but this by no means prevented its introduction and among the notorious whiskey runners whose names were well-known were the Wade brothers, white men, and two negroes, Dick Glass and George Mack. Their headquarters were in the Seminole Nation but as their supply of whiskey came from Texas, they has to pass through the Chickasaw Nation with their supplies, following what became known as the old Whiskey trail. Another well-known whiskey peddler and all-around "bad man" was Frank Pierce Robert, sometimes called Frank Pierce, who came from Texas. His headquarters were at Johnsonville in the Chickasaw Nation. A bad negro by the name of Manuel Patterson was another notorious character. He lived near the old Cherokee town of Washita. He finally killed one of the Ayers brothers, a deputy United States marshal, while resisting arrest and Manuel Patterson later died in the Fort Smith jail.

To this list may be added the name of Bud Stevens. He committed some crime near Gordonville, Grayson County, Texas, and when Deputy Sheriff Dallas Hodges tried to arrest him, Stevens shot and killed him and accompanied by his wife, fled to the Indian Territory and located near Sorghum Flats on the Washita in the Arbuckle Mountains. Some of the brothers of Dallas Hodges learned of Stevens' whereabouts and went to arrest him. Stevens was hiding in a secluded place in a rough, broken country and detecting the approach of the Hodges men before they saw him, he opened fire, killing Babe Hodges and wounding Mr. Coleman and then made good his escape to a negro community near the foot of the Arbuckle Mountains. Here he found a congenial spirit in the person of a young negro by the name of Bully July and being the same type of character, they soon became cronies and boon companions and made frequent trips together to the mountains, but July's cupidity [stupidity] finally resulted in Stevens' death. Learning that Stevens had accumulated some little property and desiring to possess it, the negro lured Stevens into the mountain, shot him down in cold blood, and having concealed the body, returned to the Stevens home and informed Mrs. Stevens that her husband was badly injured in the mountains and needed her care and attention. The unsuspicious woman unhesitatingly accompanied the negro to the place where her husband was supposed to be, where she was brutally assaulted by the negro who then murdered her and cast her body into a deep cave.

The protracted absence of Stevens and his wife attracted little attention in the community where they had resided for it was known that he was an outlaw and on the "dodge," and it was generally believed that they had left the country. Probably their fate would never have been known if the lips of the murderer had remained sealed, but whiskey finally betrayed him. While attending a negro gathering and while under the influence of whiskey, this negro confidentially revealed the details of the crime to one of his colored friends of the name of Loftus. Loftus later told some other negroes and Bully became suspicious of Loftus and killed him but the details of his crime against Stevens and his wife finally leaked out, probably through some of the negroes whom Loftus had told and officers were sent to the scene of the crime.

The cave was located in which Mrs. Stevens body had been cast, and one of the officers lowered into the cave. When he reached the bottom he found it was a veritable snake den and signaled his friends and they pulled him out. Procuring a gun he again descended and killed a large number of rattlesnakes. The skeleton of Mrs. Stevens was found in the cave and with her body there was a carpet bag containing her clothing. Bully was arrested, carried to Fort Smith, tried, convicted, and hanged in 1882.

I now come to the incidents leading up to the killing of my two brothers, Jim and Andy Roff, by the notorious Lee gang of outlaws in 1885. At that time Jim and Andy and another brother of mine were ranching between Caddo Creek and the mountains about two miles west of Berwyn. Frank Pierce, whose real name was Frank Pierce Roberts, Jim Lee and his brothers, Pink and Tom Lee, and their brother-in-law, Ed Stein[e], were operating in the vicinity of Red River some distance from where my brothers were ranching.

Frank Pierce had moved into the Indian Territory from one of the western counties of Texas and has located at Johnsonville. His principal business was bootlegging and he was considered a very bad man. While he was at Johnsonville he killed Chub Moore, Chickasaw Indian, but escaped prosecution on a claim of self-defense.

Ed Stein[e] was running a small store at that time at Delaware Bend in Texas on Red River and from him Pierce obtained his supplies of whiskey. In fact, Stein[s]'s place was the source of supply for most of the whiskey peddlers operating in the Chickasaw Nation. Jim Lee was a squaw man who had married an Indian Wife and as this gave him a "right" in the country, he had quite a large pasture fenced in on the Indian Territory side of the river twelve to fifteen miles north of Delaware Bend near what was called Cold Branch, a tributary of Caddo Creek, a rather out-of-the-way place and with him lived his brother Pink. This place was a general stronghold of most of the bad men and outlaws passing through that part of the country.

These four men were all friends and associates in crime and the Lee brothers and Frank Pierce, in addition to their other criminal activities, were associated together in rustling cattle.

For several years prior to 1885 and up to that time, quite a number of cattle ranged in the mountains near the Roff ranch and in April of that year while my brother Jim was up in the mountains looking through the stock, he save five or six men on horseback rounding up a small bunch of cattle. He started to ride over to the place where they were to identify these men if possible and to see what they were doing with the cattle but when these men saw him coming they left the cattle and rode off. Jim could not recognize any of the party but upon examining the cattle, he discovered that they belonged to some of the settlers in the neighborhood, who owned small herds. Some of these cattle belonged to a man of the name of Estes, others to a man of the name of McColgin, and others showed "off" brands.

Jim left the cattle and rode off some distance and concealed himself and in a short time the rustlers returned and rounded up the cattle.

Jim then went to Estes and McColgin and reported what he had seen. It was evening and they were late in striking the trail so they waited until morning and started out. They trailed the cattle across the river to Delaware Bend. When they rode up to Steine's store, four or five men came out with guns in their hands, including Frank Pierce, the Lee Boys and also Ed Steine who acted as spokesman for the party. My brother asked Mr. Steine if he had seen anyone pass leading or driving a large span of black mules. Steine then turned to his followers, saying "they are looking for some mules."

Being greatly outnumbered and at a decided disadvantage, my brother and his companions did not deem it advisable to mention cattle and soon after that rode away.

Later my brother and his companions got in touch with the sheriff's office at Gainesville and Mr. Hill, the sheriff, arranged to meet them on a fixed date and lay plans for the arrest of the rustlers. In accordance with this arrangement a meeting was held, attended by a posse of men from the Territory, Sheriff Hill, and some of his deputies.

Sheriff Hill suggested that inasmuch as he and his deputy, Pat Ware, were unknown to the Lee boys and Frank Pierce, they would go to the store and get inside on a pretext of wanting to buy something and in this manner locate their men and get the drop on them and in the meantime the rest of the posse must wait on the Territory side until they heard from Sheriff Hill. This plan was finally adopted. Hill and Ware rode on to the store where they were met by Frank Pierce with a Winchester in his hands who gruffly asked them what they wanted and upon being informed by Mr. Hill that they were on their way to Dexter and wanted to know which road to take, Pierce pointed to the road with his gun and told them to "hit it and don't look back," but to obey so they rode on to Dexter.

In the meantime the posse on the Territory side were waiting for some word from the sheriff, but hearing nothing they finally became restless and sent a man who lived in that neighborhood and had sometimes traded at the Steine store to investigate, believing that he would not arouse any suspicion among the people who were acquainted with him but when he arrived at the store Pierce ordered him to get in the house and be sure and stay there.

As this man did not return and no word came from him, the posse finally decided to investigate the matter for themselves. There were six or eight men in the party, John Washington, Andy Roff, three or four Chickasaw Indians and possibly one or two others. They crossed the lot. Mr. Washington, who had taken shelter behind a rail fence, called out to him to hold up, to which Pierce replied, "Hold up yourself," and fired his gun at Washington, the bullet striking one of the fence rails and scattering a lot of splinters around him.

Pierce then ran some distance, jumped on his horse which was already saddled and started to cross the river, the members of the posse shooting at him and he returning their fire. He managed to reach the other side of the river but there he fell from his horse on the sand bar, literally shot to pieces, his record of crime at an end.

The members of the posse recovered several heads of the stolen stock in a brushy pasture on the Texas side in a bend of the river. The Lee boys were not at the store at the time Pierce was killed but when they learned of his death they were very much incensed and gathered together quite a number of bad men at Jim Lee's place at Cold Branch.

At this time Jim Guy, a brother of Governor Guy, was a United States deputy marshal and also a member of the Indian Police force. He had a writ for Dallas Humby, an Indian charged with wife murder and finally located and arrested Humby at home of his brother, Ed Humby, but his prisoner had a severe attack of sickness and Guy, thinking he would not be able to travel, left him with his brother Ed upon Ed's promise that he would keep Humby until he was able to travel and then turn him over to the officer but before Guy could get back the Lee boys came and got Humby and took him to their place.

At this time Mr. Guy, also, had warrants for the arrest of Jim and Pink Lee and also an order to cut down the acreage of their pasture, it being in excess of the acreage allowed by law.

With a view of arresting these parties and the negro, Dallas Humby, who was staying at the Lee place, Guy went to the Roff ranch and requested them to go with him as members of a posse to assist in apprehending these parties. My older brother, Andy, knowing that the Lees and Humby would be on the lookout and fortified, did not believe it advisable to make any attempt at that time, and tried to talk Guy out of the notion, but Gut insisted, telling the men that if they would not go with him then that he would not try to arrest the Lees or Humby at all and finally my brothers seeing that it was a case of now or never, reluctantly consented to go. There were six men in the original party; my two brothers, Andy and Jim, a cowboy from the ranch of the name of Billy Kirksley ,Deputy United States Marshal Jim Guy and two regular posse-men, "Windy Johnson" and a Choctaw of the name of Emerson Folsom.

It was an ill-advised expedition for Guy's rashness cost him his life and that of three others of the party.

On the morning of the first day of May, 1885, Guy marshaled his forces at Henderson's store on the Washita some eight or ten miles from the Lee ranch. There were eleven or twelve men in the posse by this time. They left before dawn and arrived at the Lee ranch about sunup. The Lee ranch house was a two room log house with an open hall between the two rooms. There was a small window on the north side of the east room with a board shutter and a stick and dirt chimney in the east end of the room. The house had been carefully arranged to resist attack with port holes through which to shoot; there was one port hole in the chimney and one on each side of the east room.

Some two hundred yards east of the house there was a boggy branch and when Guy's forces reached the branch they found it so wet and boggy that they could not cross, only Jim Roff's horse reaching the other side, so they agreed to leave the horses with Mr. Johnson and walk to the house. Mr. Guy told the boys that if the Lee boys refused to surrender that he would not stage a fight but would withdraw his forces.

When the members of the posse came up near the northeast corner of the east room, someone, afterward said to have been Ed Steine, the Lee boys' brother-in-law, opened the shutter on the north side and asked them what they wanted. Mr. Guy told them that he had a writ for Jim and Pink Lee and an order from Governor Wolfe to cut their pasture, that he wanted them to come out and surrender and that he did not want any trouble and that he would see that the Lee brothers and Humby were protected. Steine told him to come around to the front and they would talk the matter over and with these words shut the window.

Guy and Folsom walked around to the front near a large oak tree standing a short distance from the east end of the hall where Mr. Guy set his gun down. A moment later a shot was fired from the west room, the ball passing through Guy's body, killing him almost instantly. This shot was supposed to have been fired by the negro, Dallas Humby.

A few moments of silence followed and then from the port holes on the east end of the house rained a volley of shots into the group of men outside, most of whom were assembled near the east end of the house. My two brothers, Andy and Jim Roff and Billy Kirksey [Kirksley], were killed instantly, two bullets passing through their bodies. Andy Roff, though badly wounded, managed to get some distance from the house. The other members of the party fled from the scene of danger, some of them reaching the shelter of a small gulch heading up near the northeast corner of the house and others running and hiding from tree to tree, firing back. They eventually made their escape.

My brother Andy was last seen alive by some of the boys who escaped, sitting at the root of a tree some little distance from the house apparently in great agony. All indications show that he must have been alive when the general firing ceased for when his body was picked up later, at the root of the tree where he had been seen, it was discovered that two shots had passed through his body, one through the lower part and the other seemed to have been fired when he was in a sitting position, for the bullet had entered his breast under the collar bone and passed out the back lower down and had evidently been fired at close range for his clothing was powder burned.

It was related by the survivors that ten or twelve men must have been concealed in the house at the time the shooting occurred for the fire was incessant, five or six guns working from port holes and others being constantly fired from other parts of the house.

It was the general opinion that the gang inside included the three Lee boys, Jim, Pink, and Tom, their brother-in-law, Ed Steine, Tom Cole, a man by the name of Copeland, the negro, Dallas Humby and possibly three of four more, including the Dyer brothers who shortly afterward were hanged by a mob in Lamar County, Texas, after killing the sheriff of that county. At the time of the hanging one of them had a gunshot wound which he said he had received in a fight in Indian Territory.

Great excitement followed this brutal and unjustified murders and large bodies of armed men were organized and sent out to range the country and hunt down the outlaws. The day following the tragedy a small body of men on the lookout for the Lees, were fired upon from the brush but fortunately no one was hurt for the shots were fired at long range. The Sunday following the shooting which occurred on a Friday, a crowd went to the Lee ranch and finding the place deserted, burned the ranch house down.

A. B. Roff offered a large reward for the capture of the Lee boys and Ed Steine, dead or alive. This reward was posted at Gainesville and as a result officers and detectives came in from Dallas and other Texas points to join in the hunt.

Shortly after the reward was posted Ed Steine and Tom Lee slipped through the country to Denison, Texas, and surrendered to officers. They were taken to Sherman, placed in jail, and on a preliminary hearing before United States Commissioner Rickets, were committed without bail on a charge of murder and were taken to Fort Smith and lodged in the United States jail to await trial.

They had considerable property, cattle, horses, and some money, and were able to secure able attorneys to defend them. Judge Pierson of Denison, Texas, and Cravens and Duvall of Fort Smith, Arkansas, were employed in their defense. Ed Steine and Tom Lee were tried that Fall and after a hard fought battle were acquitted. Ed Steine moved to Denison and resumed his favorite business of selling whiskey but as he was one of his own best customers, he soon wound up his earthly career. The last account of Tom Lee was of his conviction and confinement in the penitentiary on a charge of larceny.

The real leaders of outlaw band, Jim and Pink Lee, were at large for some time. They went heavily armed, usually carrying two revolvers a piece in addition to two rifles on their saddles, and as they had a wide range extending from Delaware bend on Red River on the south, to the Canadian River on the north, and had a host of friends of their own stripe scattered all over the country to keep them posted, their apprehension has difficult. Many of the negroes on Caddo Creek were giving the Lee brothers aid and comfort, carrying them provisions, advising them of the whereabouts of their pursuers and hiding them on occasion. But tireless Nemesis is the persons of two men, Heck Tomas [Thomas] and a man of the name of Jim Taylor, was on the track of the Lee brothers.

Heck Thomas, then living in Fort Worth, Texas, a former United States marshal and at one time city marshal of Lawton, is well known to most of the people of Oklahoma. Taylor was a resident of the Indian Territory and had a reputation of being handy with a gun. These men working together kept persistently on the trail of these outlaws, the Lee brothers, from early summer until the month of September 1885.

One of the principal hide outs of these desperadoes was at Delaware bend where many of their old friends and some of their kinsfolk lived, including Doc Lee, a brother, and two sisters. The Lee boys often hid around with these people, so in the vicinity of the homes of the members of the Lee clan, Thomas and Taylor established headquarters, staying at Strather Brown's place out on a hill on the edge of the prairie.

On the morning of the 7th day of September, 1885, Jim and Pink Lee started out south toward Brown's place with the avowed intention of locating Thomas and Taylor and shooting them down at long range. While Thomas and Taylor were at dinner some of the women folk came in and reported that the Lee boys had just ridden by at the back of the lot and Thomas and Taylor immediately started in pursuit, accompanied by a man named Jack Brown and another man. Believing that the Lee boys had gone into the brakes in the direction of Steine's store they went in that direction but could not locate them. Mr. Thomas finally ascended a high point overlooking John Washington's pasture and with the aid of his field glasses, located the Lee boys out on the prairie five or six hundred yards from Brown's house.

A long branch headed into the prairie in Washington's pasture, up near the place where the outlaws were standing, and Thomas and his companions entirely concealed from them, traveled up the branch to a place where it forked near the top of the hill. Here Jim Taylor left the rest of the party and crawled up the hill until he could peep over the top. One glance was enough for the Lee boys were in plain view, only about seventy-five yards away. They were still gazing off towards Brown's house. They had discarded two of their guns and each carried only one rifle apiece; one of them of large caliber, a 45-90 as I recall it; they probably intended to do their shooting at long range.

Crawling back out of sight, Taylor signaled Thomas to join him. Brown and his companion then crawled up the left fork of the branch to a clump of small trees and Thomas went directly up the hill and joined Taylor and together they commanded the outlaws to lay down their arms and surrender. Then Tomas [Thomas] and his companion shot and shot to kill. Pink Lee was shot through the head and expired at once. Jim Lee was badly wounded but game to the last, he sprang from the place where he and his brother lay and opened fire on his enemies but his sights were raised for long shooting and the shots all went wild. As he refused to give himself up, another shot was fired which closed his earthly pilgrimage.

Forty years have come and gone since these tragic days. Most of the actors in this stirring drama, good, bad, and indifferent, are sleeping away the ages in some quiet graves.

In this narrative I have touched the dark side of life but there was a brighter side as well. There was light among the shadows, sunshine and roses as well as crime and bloodshed. There were joys as well as sorrows. People lived and loved and lost in those early days as they do now. There were friends whom we loved, neighbors whom we honored and respected. A great many of them are gone but I feel sure that these early pioneers have done their bit to make the world a better place in which to live.

The old time Chickasaws who were our friends, how we cherish their memories. Let us hope their vision of a "Happy Hunting Ground" is a reality.

Second Interview with John. T. Barr* of Stecker by Raymond Jantz on 13 January 1938. This interview is listed in the Indian / Pioneer History, Volume 90 on pages 44 to 73 at the Archives/Manuscripts Division of the Oklahoma Historical Society, Oklahoma City.

* Copy of this interview was submitted by James T. Barr who wrote that it was attributed to John T. Barr in error.

Note: The person who submitted this for inclusion in Pioneers of Chickasaw Nation, IT (James T. Barr, 108 Blacksmith Rd. Lexington SC. 29072) believed it to be attributed to him incorrectly (see references to his brothers, the Roffs).

NOTE: Appears to have actually been written by Joe T. Roff, brother of the Roffs mentioned in the narrative.